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July 4, 2012 Transcript of #CommsChat on Wikipedia with Philip Sheldrake

This week on #CommsChat, we tackled the issue of Wikipedia, and were joined by Philip Sheldrake, author, partner of Meanwhile and director of Intellect and 6UK, who sat on the CIPR Social Media panel that helped develop the guidance notes recently published by the CIPR.

The topics on Monday included:

- Is there anything intrinsically wrong in allowing PROs to edit Wikipedia pages?
- Does the number of inaccuracies on corporate Wikipedia pages mean that it is no longer fit for purpose?
- Has the historical hostility between Wikipedia and PR led to an irrevocable breakdown between the two camps?
- How can the PR industry rebuild relations with Wikipedians?
- What are the CIPR guidelines and are they the complete solution?
- What recourse should PROs have if changes don’t get made?

Find the full transcript below:

• about 1 minute ago And please, if you enjoyed tonights discussion, tell your colleagues, friends &relatives to put aside 8 to 9 every monday for #commschat
• about 2 minutes ago “the More the merrier @Sheldrake: If you like this debate, please contribute your POV (not necessarily neutral!) on the wiki. #commschat“
• about 2 minutes ago Thanks @Sheldrake and everyone for a storming #Commschat
• about 2 minutes ago Final plug for the guidance http://t.co/n4Q7doat + the draft wiki where we want to work with you all on v2 http://t.co/DOkB5ctX #commschat
• about 2 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/e6VLhpDZ #commschat
• about 3 minutes ago And that brings us to top of the hour. I’m going to head home now, but please feel free to continue the conversation #commschat
• about 3 minutes ago Thanks @sheldrake for hosting tonight’s chat #commschat
• about 3 minutes ago @sheldrake thanks Philip, good discussion, well led! Another step forward. #commschat
• about 4 minutes ago @CommsChat Thank you for the invitation to put my oar in. Three cheers for Wikipedia #commschat
• about 4 minutes ago and, of course, a big thanks to @sheldrake. Hopefully the cramp slowly spreading through his hands will ease after such a fast #commschat
• about 4 minutes ago So in the last minnute, a plea. If you like this debate, please contribute your POV (not necessarily neutral!) on the wiki. #commschat
• about 5 minutes ago with 1 minute to go I’d like to say a big thanks to our sponsors @mynewsdesk_uk @kwdigital and @_digital_impact – Follow ‘em all #commschat
• about 5 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: BTW, were also maintaining a list of resources on the @wikimediauk wiki. Check it out: http://t.co/vx7p9Jjq #Commschat
• about 6 minutes ago if you see gaps, contribute! RT @Sheldrake: we’re maintaining a list of resources on the @wikimediauk wiki http://t.co/RO5cytIs #commschat
• about 7 minutes ago BTW, we’re also maintaining a list of resources on the @wikimediauk wiki. Check it out: http://t.co/GmYN9Neu #commschat
• about 7 minutes ago My favourite Wikipedia donor quote “Wikipedia is not perfect, but it is fantastic” #commschat
• about 8 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: remember i) theyre volunteers ii) Wikipedia is 99% awesome iii) it isnt perfect iv) so lets keep talking. #Commschat
• about 9 minutes ago So I like to say remember i) they’re volunteers ii) Wikipedia is 99% awesome iii) it isn’t perfect iv) so let’s keep talking. #commschat
• about 9 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: So long as you recognise that youre dealing with volunteers not journalists or other employees. Patience. #commschat
• about 9 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: So long as you recognise that youre dealing with volunteers not journalists or other employees. Patience. #Commschat
• about 9 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: So long as you recognise that you’re dealing with volunteers not journalists or other employees. Patience. #commschat
• about 9 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/e6VLhpDZ #commschat
• about 10 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: Q6. All the approaches for elevating an issue are identified in the guidance. Theyre quite extensive. #Commschat
• about 10 minutes ago RT @CommsChat: topic 6 What recourse should PROs have if changes don’t get made? #Commschat
• about 10 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: Q6. All the approaches for elevating an issue are identified in the guidance. Theyre quite extensive. #commschat
• about 11 minutes ago So long as you recognise that you’re dealing with volunteers not journalists or other employees. Patience. #commschat
• about 11 minutes ago Each #Wikipedia page has it’s own traffic statistics section – e.g. http://t.co/cqT0Ihat. #commschat
• about 11 minutes ago Q6. All the approaches for elevating an issue are identified in the guidance. They’re quite extensive. #commschat
• about 12 minutes ago Tricky situation. RT @Petedevery: I tried to engage the editors thru the talk page but I was talking to myself #Commschat
• about 12 minutes ago So not a reputational issue? See #CIPR TV: http://t.co/EZyd2A1N #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago @sheldrake Flowchart sounds smart. Found Conversation article useful to run through profile set-up http://t.co/HtfzUUpG #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago SORRY meant topic 6 What recourse should PROs have if changes don’t get made? #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago it probably has no-one visiting it anyway! #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/q4s4eKZm #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago @davidgerard, my fellow guest on recent #CIPRTV, says if you can’t get a Wikipedian’s attention for a page… #commschat
• about 13 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/n0wSg7d1 #commschat
• about 14 minutes ago @Petedevery you could also try engaging editors through their own talk pages too #commschat
• about 14 minutes ago Ryan meant topic 6 What recourse should PROs have if changes don’t get made? #commschat
• about 14 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning No matter. I apparently caused so much trouble that only Jimmy can remove my ban – which, he, um, will not #commschat
• about 14 minutes ago We’ll have the last 5 mins as catch up on all topics, but this seems a good time to move topic 5 #commschat
• about 15 minutes ago @Petedevery @CommsChat #commschat has been fascinating to work on with @sheldrake and others
• about 15 minutes ago @CIPR_UK I tried to engage the editors thru the talk page but I was talking to myself #commschat
• about 15 minutes ago Just to be clear, is the guidance that you shouldn’t edit directly entries about client as a PRO but you can *suggest* edits? #Commschat
• about 15 minutes ago @GnosisArts but there are as many approaches as there are wikipedians, just about. #commschat
• about 15 minutes ago @Petedevery Oh, well, in that case, they may ignore you indefinitely now #commschat
• about 16 minutes ago @GnosisArts I’m a kind who tries to be deliberate and wait-and-see, until I act, at which point I become fast and concise. #commschat
• about 16 minutes ago RT @Petedevery: @CommsChat The guidelines are a great place to start building a more +ve relationship for wiki & PR #commschat
• about 16 minutes ago RT @Petedevery: @CommsChat The guidelines are a great place to start building a more +ve relationship for wiki & PR #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @GnosisArts Yes absolutely – in big red letters #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @GnosisArts here’s a (rather non-exhaustive) list, just to start with. http://t.co/GQJqNULV #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @Petedevery Beautifully put. #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @Petedevery did u try engaging through editors of similar content? check out contributors search too #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning Of course, weeding out unscrupulous people is ongoing task. Will always be those who break the rules regardless #commschat
• about 17 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning Shit, “one” of the patrollers! The whole damn gang of them! #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: that doesnt mean PRs cant participate in the editing process though – just dont jump in + make direct edits #Commschat
• about 18 minutes ago @CommsChat #commschat it is a good start but the complete solution may be some way off
• about 18 minutes ago @CommsChat The guidelines are a great place to start building a more +ve relationship for wiki & PR #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago Another objective for a version 2 is to produce a flow chart to help PROs more efficiently. #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago Q5: Just as pillar 5 “Wikipedia does not have firm rules.” there will never be a complete guide. Evolution will rule. #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago @Petedevery Did you declare that you were a PR pro w/ a possible COI? #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago .@GnosisArts @chriskeating You’ve run into one of the patrollers then, I hear. A fast and furious lot, they are. #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/1w5h9U15 #commschat
• about 18 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: It’s important to remember that Wikipedia is a community of volunteers trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. #commschat
• about 19 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning Could you elaborate on what you mean? #commschat
• about 19 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk @JessYeoman best focus: if you have a COI, work with the Wikipedia community to effect change/correction. #commschat
• about 19 minutes ago @Sheldrake @phil_cipr No but truly, you guys are doing great work. I do wish you the best of success. #commschat
• about 19 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/e6VLhpDZ #commschat
• about 19 minutes ago If anyone is keen on more background on the #PR #Wikipedia debate check out the last #CIPRTV http://t.co/e6VLhpDZ #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago Q5. They are a great overview of Wikipedia for PROs imho. But the dialogue will continue, and new versions will emerge. #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago .@chriskeating @GnosisArts (there’s many kinds of wikipedian #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago We’ve seen links to the guidleines, so lets focus more on the latter part – are they the complete solution? #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago RT @Communicatemag: …talk about controlling the message on their Wikipedia pages. I cant imagine that happening this year #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago @Sheldrake I tried to engage thru talk pages & go response! #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago .@chriskeating @GnosisArts I have seen wikipedians be concise! http://t.co/dZkYwbhn#commschat
• about 20 minutes ago topic 5 What are the CIPR guidelines and are they the complete solution? #commschat
• about 20 minutes ago I want all you PR folks to go to wikipedia now, set up a user page, declare your affiliation … and let me know what happens #commschat
• about 21 minutes ago @Sheldrake neatly segwaying into topic 5 #commschat
• about 21 minutes ago Topic 4. Answer = become a Wikipedian. Go on! I’ve only edited 20 or so times, but I’it improved Wikipedia. #commschat
• about 21 minutes ago “@Sheldrake: In my opinion, we had to listen, listen and listen some more. And then talk. best practice public relations #commschat“
• about 21 minutes ago …talk about controlling the message on their Wikipedia pages. I cant imagine that happening this year #commschat
• about 21 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk that doesn’t mean PRs can’t participate in the editing process though – just don’t jump in + make direct edits #commschat
• about 21 minutes ago I’m not going to mention names, but only last year in the Digital Impact Awards, under strategy, we had more than one agency… #commschat
• about 22 minutes ago .@AllthingsIC That’d be nice. But be aware that there are also many unscrupulous people ruining it for ethical PR every day #commschat
• about 22 minutes ago @chriskeating Right. But they’re concise as hell when they shun you : #commschat
• about 22 minutes ago @chriskeating You’re touching there on one of my primary objectives for version 2. Will be garnering others on talk pages soon. #commschat
• about 22 minutes ago @JessYeoman to summarise: don’t edit Wikipedia if you are not neutral (eg a PR for a company) #Commschat
• about 23 minutes ago @Sheldrake good point #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago RT @chriskeating: @GnosisArts I’ve never yet seen the Wikipedia community be concise. it sort of goes with the territory #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago @GnosisArts I’ve never yet seen the Wikipedia community be concise. it sort of goes with the territory #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago @GnosisArts Well if your only complaint is that we could have got to this point sooner, not sure what to add!… #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago A4) Continuing to have conversations would be good step to rebuild relations with Wikipedians. Need to earn (back?) trust &listen #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago @Sheldrake Some of us did not have the benefit of “the guidance” and now we’re shunned for life (i.e., us! lol) #commschat
• about 23 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: We had to listen, listen and listen some more. And then talk. Call it best practice public relations #commschat
• about 24 minutes ago @chriskeating me neither #commschat
• about 24 minutes ago @Sheldrake I get that. but the “Guidance” just came out this year! Some of us PRs have been editing for years b4 “the guidance”! #commschat
• about 24 minutes ago @GnosisArts remember the background to this was agencies masking their identity. Clarity on CoI would not have mattered. #commschat
• about 24 minutes ago Topic 4. In my opinion, we had to listen, listen and listen some more. And then talk. Call it best practice public relations #commschat
• about 24 minutes ago @CommsChat By engaging in conversation. Be open. Be transparent. Think broadly about knowledge. #commschat
• about 25 minutes ago http://t.co/Xilr1Bq1 #commschat
• about 25 minutes ago @Sheldrake I don’t really see a difference between public and private sector institutions as far as Wikipedia’s concerned #commschat
• about 25 minutes ago @GnosisArts They’re trying to help us by not being so categorical. They want to talk on the talk pages. It’s all in the guidance. #commschat
• about 26 minutes ago Looks like an interesting #commschat this evening. Shame I have missed so much already!
• about 26 minutes ago Topic 4 How can the PR industry rebuild relations with Wikipedians? #commschat
• about 26 minutes ago RT @mynewsdesk_uk: Here’s the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/4pDilxDP #Commschat
• about 26 minutes ago So it seems that the hostility hasnt led to an irrevocable breakdown and all is well. So let’s move onto Topic 4 #commschat
• about 26 minutes ago If you need some background for colleagues / boss / client, two blog posts here: http://t.co/eXgM2ojV / http://t.co/aOoJ7C4R #commschat
• about 27 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: @CommsChat Did you know we had over 12000 words of discussion about the guidance with @wikimediauk #commschat See: http://t.co/Wcsew8Hw
• about 27 minutes ago @LindsayHolt @Communicatemag , if you notice that information is out of date after further research, please come back and update! #commschat
• about 28 minutes ago @PhilM_CIPR Had they said, “If u are employed or retained, don’t edit directly.” Simple. Easy. Clear. But thy don’t do “clear” #commschat
• about 28 minutes ago RT @PhilM_CIPR: @CommsChat #commschat i agree with that. If you are employed or retained you have a clear COI.
• about 28 minutes ago @PhilM_CIPR Right! So why did it take them 400 Megs of webspace to explain that? It’s actually very simple. #commschat
• about 29 minutes ago @chriskeating Does working in the public sector mean you have no COI to think about? (newbies COI -> conflict of interest) #commschat
• about 29 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: @GnosisArts And thats why Im delighted @wikimediauk helped us so diligently. Is helping us. #commschat
• about 29 minutes ago RT +1 @PhilM_CIPR: @CommsChat #commschat i agree with that. If you are employed or retained you have a clear COI. #commschat
• about 29 minutes ago And I’m talking about in practice, not in theory. #commschat
• about 30 minutes ago @LouDouglas so how would it differ if you’re in the public sector? #commschat
• about 30 minutes ago @GnosisArts And that’s why I’m delighted @wikimediauk helped us so diligently. Is helping us. #commschat
• about 30 minutes ago @CommsChat #commschat i agree with that. If you are employed or retained you have a clear COI.
• about 30 minutes ago Returning to Greenpeace v BP though – are Wikipedians quickr to pull down a PRs defence or an NGO’s ‘attack’.Are all NPOV’s equal #commschat
• about 31 minutes ago @aimee1986 Check out the #CIPR Guidance on Wikipedia at http://t.co/gdezCu6m #commschat
• about 31 minutes ago @Sheldrake It’s not that simple, Philip. Rules have to be clear and non-contradictory. Wikipedia has some culpability too #commschat
• about 31 minutes ago @CommsChat interesting debate, we were looking at how we can manage our wikipedia entry the other day #commschat
• about 31 minutes ago Very interesting article (for subscribers) about the power of wikipedia that could be misused #commschat http://t.co/IKPhfvgn
• about 31 minutes ago Unfortunately, I have to jump off — thanks for the quick chat! #commschat
• about 32 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: @CommsChat Did you know we had over 12000 words of discussion about the guidance with @wikimediauk #commschat See: http://t.co/Wcsew8Hw
• about 32 minutes ago You’ve come to the right place then! RT @Petedevery: Im a wikipedian & a PR too! #Commschat
• about 32 minutes ago You can see why Wikipedians got annoyed. Not only did some PROs break their rules, they broke the profession’s code of conduct. #commschat
• about 33 minutes ago .@Communicatemag @cipr_uk @sheldrake How do CIPR’s guidelines split PR, according to you? #commschat
• about 33 minutes ago @markpinsent That is a good one! #commschat Wikipedia:What “Ignore all rules” means http://t.co/4i1vTu62
• about 33 minutes ago As @Sheldrake says http://t.co/n4Q7doat is just the start – we’d encourage you all to participate in making version 2 better #commschat
• about 33 minutes ago And I guess not, if the CIPR and Wikimedia worked together to produce 12000 words of discussion #commschat
• about 33 minutes ago @Communicatemag Which is why it should never be your only source Honestly, I rarely look @ it for facts. #commschat
• about 33 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: Did you know we had over 12000 words of discussion about the guidance with @wikimediauk See: http://t.co/lAf4eg0L #Commschat
• about 33 minutes ago RT @CommsChat: A great #commschat tonight. The @CIPR_UK Wikipedia guidelines discussed, dissected, possibly disputed with @sheldrake as guest.
• about 34 minutes ago Topic 3. It looked that way. But this initiative rekindled the exchange of ideas and perspectives. It’s hard work, but worth it. #commschat
• about 34 minutes ago @Jan_Ainali Like the one that says Wikipedia does not have firm rules. #commschat
• about 34 minutes ago @CommsChat by definition, a PR professionals job is to present their clients point of view, not everyone elses #commschat
• about 34 minutes ago RT @Jan_Ainali: Wikipedian= person who shares the values of the 5 pillars and contribute to WP. http://t.co/N6hLR6oC #commschat
• about 35 minutes ago RT @Kim_Bruning: … alteration to an article you may have a COI over, how about getting another wikipedian to help? < Precisely #commschat
• about 35 minutes ago @CommsChat I’m a wikipedian & a PR too! #commschat
• about 35 minutes ago Topic 3 Has the historical hostility between Wikipedia and PR led to an irrevocable breakdown between the two camps? #commschat
• about 35 minutes ago @CommsChat Did you know we had over 12000 words of discussion about the guidance with @wikimediauk #commschat See: http://t.co/Wcsew8Hw
• about 35 minutes ago Get a “designated driver” …pardon… “designated editor” to help! #Wikipedia talk pages are great for this. #commschat
• about 35 minutes ago which in turn would make it an ideal time to move onto Topic 3 #commschat
• about 36 minutes ago Wikipedian= person who shares the values of the 5 pillars and contribute to WP. http://t.co/N6hLR6oC #commschat
• about 36 minutes ago @AllthingsIC Spot on. #CommsChat
• about 36 minutes ago If you want to make an alteration to an article you may have a COI over, how about getting another wikipedian to help? #commschat
• about 36 minutes ago @uber_engagement “socialmedians” – like it! #Commschat
• about 36 minutes ago THere’s a lot of strong sentiment here. It would nice to have some WIkipedians’ perspective, if any are listening in. #commschat
• about 36 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning #postoftheday #commschat
• about 36 minutes ago Wow. 27 minutes have just flown by! #commschat
• about 37 minutes ago It is very hard to self-assess your own bias. Just like it is hard to self-asses your state of inebriation #commschat
• about 37 minutes ago @Sheldrake just like social medians obsess about social media #commschat
• about 37 minutes ago Agreed! MT @Sheldrake #CIPR Guidance just a snapshot in time of the ongoing dialogue. And at least we have established dialogue! #commschat”
• about 38 minutes ago @Petedevery Good for you! we’ve fallen into that trap more than once. haha! #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago RT @LyndaDaboh: @Sheldrake Wikipedians also quite a narrow demographic – 90% uni-ed young males – what impact does that have? #Commschat
• about 38 minutes ago @CommsChat Re, Green Peace Q. The same rules apply to everyone. Do not edit if you have a COI. Period. #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago @Kim_Bruning Not as a Wikipedian! How would you define Wikipedian? (In 140 characters) #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: #CIPR Guidance is just a snapshot in time of the ongoing dialogue. And at least we have established dialogue! #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago @Sheldrake We demand changes in the founding principles of countries, when they no longer serve their citizens, but … #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago @LindsayHolt But I know that if I look on Wikipedia 25% of info on FTSE100 cos and prob 75% on FTSE250 Cos will be out of date #commschat
• about 38 minutes ago @GnosisArts Which is why I didn’t want to just edit article myself! #commschat
• about 39 minutes ago @LyndaDaboh Diversity in the Wikipedia community can only be addressed by those under-represented imho. #commschat
• about 39 minutes ago Have people experienced many inaccuracies with Wikipedia? #Commschat
• about 39 minutes ago @PhilM_CIPR Don’t disagree. Just think it’s naive to believe it’ll ever be neutral. #CommsChat
• about 39 minutes ago Importantly, the #CIPR Guidance is just a snapshot in time of the ongoing dialogue. And at least we have established dialogue! #commschat
• about 40 minutes ago @sheldrake in yr research, did you find out what attitude was to eg Greenpeace contributing to BP’s page, when BP can’t amend #commschat
• about 40 minutes ago I think key is to see it as a great starting point. There’s an expectation/understanding you need to double check the ‘facts’ #commschat
• about 40 minutes ago PR defn: establishing mutual understanding and goodwill. How does demanding changes in founding principles do that? #commschat
• about 40 minutes ago @Sheldrake Wikipedians also quite a narrow demographic – 90% uni-ed young males – what impact does that have? #commschat #commschat
• about 40 minutes ago Unable to participate in #commschat tonight but it’s a coker – @sheldrake discussing #CIPR Wikipedia Guidance http://t.co/5uStf5Ss
• about 41 minutes ago A2 I like that w/ Wikipedia, you get the background and the “facts.” I like to know what others think, as much as what they know. #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago @Petedevery & if u take their silence as permission, you’re going to be doubly screwed! #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: If we’re to slate the entire project based on some inaccuracies we dont like, what would be left in the world? #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago @markpinsent I think we have more of a sense of humour about it all #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake Here’s the test. Can you write an article re. smthng you feel strongly about, so that the reader can’t tell that? #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago @Petedevery That happens more than they’d like to admit. (contd) #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: Great chat on #Wikipedia and #PR currently taking place on #commschat
• about 41 minutes ago (see earlier tweet for link) RT @Sheldrake: The guidance explains how to get inaccuracies sorted. #Commschat
• about 42 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: Great chat on #Wikipedia and #PR currently taking place on #commschat
• about 42 minutes ago My goodness. If we’re to slate the entire project based on some inaccuracies we don’t like, what would be left in the world? #commschat
• about 42 minutes ago RT @CommsChat: Topic 2 Does the number of inaccuracies on corporate wikipedia pages mean that it is no longer fit for purpose? #Commschat
• about 42 minutes ago @markpinsent I think plenty of Wikipedians really are altruists, wanting to share their knowledge to others #commschat
• about 42 minutes ago @markpinsent I dunno. In theory, everyone is a Wikipedian. How would you describe yourself? #commschat
• about 42 minutes ago Check out the WikiProject Business for more info on this RT @Sheldrake: Volunteers try hard to cater to corp. entry accuracy. #commschat
• about 42 minutes ago @jangles They’re right! #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago @markpinsent then why all the fuss? Wikipedia has a role, like it or not, in informing reputation #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago The guidance explains how to get inaccuracies sorted. #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago @markpinsent many of those Wikipedians see PRs in the same light. #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago @CommsChat Do people really take the content at face value rather than the links at the bottom anyway? #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago Over several months I tried to engage editors re european facts (employee #s, locations etc) but got no response #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago Great chat on #Wikipedia and #PR currently taking place on #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago A2) If purpose is to be a credible, reliable source of truth then I think inaccuracies do render it unfit for purpose #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago The #CIPR Guidance was co-authored with Wikimedia UK, the entity that looks after Wikipedia’s interests in the UK #commschat @wikimediauk
• about 43 minutes ago @CommsChat “never” is a big word. But it’s _very_ hard. I have seen very few mere mortals manage it. #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago RT @LindsayHolt: @mynewsdesk_uk But what is the perception of “facts” if they come from someone on the company payroll? #commschat
• about 43 minutes ago In a previous role rep’ing a US software co. I wanted to add some factual info about the company in Europe to main article #commschat
• about 44 minutes ago Wikipedians often interested in a narrow range of topics. Eg, Greek art. Volunteers try hard to cater to corp. entry accuracy. #commschat
• about 45 minutes ago Aren’t Wikipedians just egotists and know-alls? Great in a pub quiz team though. #commschat
• about 45 minutes ago RT @CommsChat: Topic 2 Does the number of inaccuracies on corporate wikipedia pages mean that it is no longer fit for purpose? #commschat
• about 45 minutes ago @Communicatemag Are you sure most journos realize that? I’m not so certain. #commschat
• about 45 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk But what is the perception of “facts” if they come from someone on the company payroll? #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago @markpinsent I know. Whether it’s a realistic goal or not, isn’t the point to them. You’ll lose that argument every time w/ them #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago RT @mynewsdesk_uk: Here’s the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/4pDilxDP #Commschat
• about 46 minutes ago @Sheldrake Neither of which are neutral. So, probably. #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago Topic 2 Does the number of inaccuracies on corporate wikipedia pages mean that it is no longer fit for purpose? #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk You’re talking there about “verifiability”. But the point remains, if you have a COI you struggle with NPOV #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago But @ GnosisArts most journalists realise that other than the most basic of background research Wikipedia is now useless #commschat
• about 46 minutes ago “@Sheldrake: It’s important to remember that Wikipedia is a community of volunteers trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. #commschat”#in
• about 47 minutes ago there’s so much to get through tonight. But now we’re onto facts, lets move to topic 2 #commschat
• about 47 minutes ago @Communicatemag They seem to create it for … the Universe, basically. #commschat
• about 47 minutes ago @markpinsent Without getting too philosophical, the Q is: would the article make the Britannica? Or, dare I say, the BBC? #commschat
• about 47 minutes ago @Sheldrake discussion in the CREWE community on Facebook clear that COI and NPOV a big issue for some of our colleagues. #commschat
• about 48 minutes ago Surely if contributor sticks to “the facts” it doesn’t matter who they are. Checks-and- balances process is community as whole? #Commschat
• about 48 minutes ago Wikipedians create this neutral, open encyclopedia because they can & because they believe in spreading knowledge widely. #commschat
• about 48 minutes ago @chriskeating Great point! Must be able to step out of that mode, though — especially when you need to be a problem solver. #commschat
• about 48 minutes ago Nothing written is neutral. All history is subjective. Wikipedia’s the same, edited from one view to another. #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago @chriskeating Yep. And that’s the problem with us editing/writing articles for clients. #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago @communicatemag Oh, I’d say there’s some *deeply* unsexy topics covered extensively by #wikipedia : ) #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago For whom do wikipedian’s create this’community’? Themselves? Or a wider group of stakeholdrs? Students? Journos? Researchers? #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago @chriskeating beautifully put. #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago Welcome @JoanFronske @danslee @PhilMorgan123 @chriskeating @CEO_CIPR @jangles and all those whove joined in. Too many to name all #commschat
• about 49 minutes ago #Intro Lindsay in Cincinnati, here, making a living in employee comms. #commschat
• about 50 minutes ago @jangles And why exactly? Did they say why a community should just change founding principles just because they’d like that? #commschat
• about 50 minutes ago RT @chriskeating: @CommsChat by definition, a PR professionals job is to present their clients point of view, not everyone elses #commschat
• about 50 minutes ago @Sheldrake sentiment in the US seems to be that change must come also from Wikpedia not only PR behaviour #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago @CommsChat sort of by definition, a PR professional’s job is to present their client’s point of view, not everyone else’s. #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk True! How much of your own outlook can you really set aside during a discussion? #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago @mynewsdesk_uk bur thats what they strive for and it is their agreed starting point #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: It’s important to remember that Wikipedia is a community of volunteers trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago @jangles I’m in! Thanks! #commschat
• about 51 minutes ago There’s a discussion about #wikipedia and #pr right now that @pigsonthewing would contribute beautifully to on the #commschat hashtag.
• about 52 minutes ago @Sheldrake yes, discussion in today’s episode of the @FIR podcast http://t.co/laV6USod #commschat
• about 52 minutes ago @SpectorPR Here’s the acid test. Can you write an article re. smthng you feel strongly about, so that the reader can’t tell that? #commschat
• about 52 minutes ago RT @mynewsdesk_uk: Here’s the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/4pDilxDP #Commschat
• about 52 minutes ago @sheldrake interesting stuff, particularly ‘good’ and’bad.’ Intrigued to know feedback…will be patient! #commschat
• about 53 minutes ago The idea that anyone on earth has a “neutral point of view” is… interesting! #Commschat
• about 53 minutes ago RT @CIPR_UK: A must RT @Sheldrake: Just 2 minutes until this evenings #commschat about the #CIPR Wikipedia Guidance (PDF http://t.co/FrnaJWSQ) #commschat
• about 53 minutes ago @CommsChat No. But message recipients will always view the pro’s outlook as biased. #commschat
• about 53 minutes ago @jangles You recently covered the N. American perspective in a recent FIR podcast http://t.co/JnpJbL8A. What’s the vibe? #commschat
• about 53 minutes ago RT +1 @Sheldrake It’s important to remember that Wikipedia is a community of volunteers trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. #commschat
• about 54 minutes ago But for an encyclopedia to work it has to be complete. And outside of ‘sexy’ topics it so often isnt. So its use diminishes #commschat
• about 54 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: Just 2 minutes until this evening’s #commschat about the #CIPR Wikipedia Guidance (PDF http://t.co/gdezCu6m)
• about 55 minutes ago Secondly, some PR practitioners think our guidance is too timid. But more on that later I think #commschat
• about 55 minutes ago Reckon that if you’re interested enough to edit Wikipedia at all, you’re interested enough to be conflicted one way or t’other. #CommsChat
• about 55 minutes ago Should not matter who edits a page, as long as you give accurate information that is unbiased and you give sources along with it. #commschat
• about 55 minutes ago @JoanFronske the #commschat is on now, Joan. Join in!
• about 55 minutes ago First up, PR has a poor reputation. Ironic I know. And Wikipedians do not distinguish between good and bad. Why should they? #commschat
• about 55 minutes ago Evening all, by the way! Adam here. @sheldrake off to a flyer… #Commschat
• about 55 minutes ago @AllthingsIC Actually this whole area is quite controversial in two ways. #commschat
• about 56 minutes ago @jangles Thank you for the tweet. What time is the #commschat?
• about 56 minutes ago RT @CommsChat: so a PR can never discuss their brand or clients brand neutrally? Thats the view of Wikipedia? Everyone agree? #Commschat
• about 56 minutes ago It’s important to remember that Wikipedia is a community of volunteers trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. #commschat
• about 56 minutes ago Something we’re keen to actively encourage RT @Sheldrake: PRs are, of course, very welcome as Wikipedians for all other topics! #commschat
• about 56 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: Wikipedians find that those who have a conflict of interest find it very difficult to edit w NPOV #Commschat
• about 57 minutes ago @sheldrake Hi back Have you been surprised by any reactions to the guidance notes? #commschat
• about 57 minutes ago so a PR can never discuss their brand or clients brand neutrally? Thats the view of Wikipedia? Does everyone agree with that? #commschat
• about 57 minutes ago RT @mynewsdesk_uk: Heres the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/9F80etv2 #commschat
• about 58 minutes ago Great to see @Sheldrake speaking sense on #commschat
• about 58 minutes ago RT @Sheldrake: One of the founding principles of Wikipedia is to edit with a neutral point of view (NPOV). #Commschat
• about 58 minutes ago RT @mynewsdesk_uk: Heres the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/hPiLv6uj #commschat
• about 58 minutes ago Hey folks, we’ll be fielding some of your questions this evening! #commschat
• about 59 minutes ago I’m gg to join in (slightly schizophrenically) from here too. As a journalist user of Wikipedia I have strong points of view too #commschat
• about 59 minutes ago PRs are, of course, very welcome as Wikipedians for all other topics! #commschat
• about 59 minutes ago So therefore discourage editing by PRs when it comes to the organisation, brands, marketplace etc. #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Here’s the @cipr_uk guidance on Wikipedia use for PR practitioners (via @Sheldrake) http://t.co/4pDilxDP #Commschat
• about 1 hour ago Wikipedians find that those who have a conflict of interest (COI in Wikipedian terminology) find it very difficult to edit w NPOV #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Hello everyone, this is Spector & Associates, a PR Firm and proud supporter of the Museum of Public Relations #commschat
• about 1 hour ago One of the founding principles of Wikipedia is to edit with a neutral point of view (NPOV). #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Lets kick off. @sheldrake Is there anything intrinsically wrong in allowing PROs to edit wikipedia pages? #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Evening all #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Welcome to all, please join but its’ always polite to start with a quick intro first. I’m Andrew, publisher of Communicate #commschat
• about 1 hour ago I’m going to be taking part in #Commschat for the next hour. See @commschat for more info or follow the hashtag.
• about 1 hour ago #commschat Hi
• about 1 hour ago one of the people who helped with the process was @sheldrake, and we’re delighted that he’s our guest on tonight’s #commschat
• about 1 hour ago this week new guidance notes, produced by, amongst others, the CIPR and wikimedia were produced on WIkipedia use for PRs #commschat
• about 1 hour ago RT @CommsChat: Topic 5 What are the CIPR guidelines on Wikipedia for PROs and are they the complete solution? #commschat
• about 1 hour ago Good evening everyone its 8pm time to start tonight’s #commschat

: #CommsChat, July, Transcript, Wikipedia