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We’ll have the transcript for you tomorrow AM. And next week join us as we chat w/ @wadds and @mynameisearl about Brand Vandals #commschat

@jgombita IT’s important that all aspects of PR work together surely – inhouse AND agency. #commschat….?

@CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield sorry I was late but good to see the chat back on form #commschat

@CommsChat #commschat very enjoyable thanks. @EllwoodAtfield, comms, digi, internal, PA recruitment. We recruit the people who talk for you.

Tks for sharing.Job markets r still saturated. I feel grateful to have work I enjoy & with great clients. @EllwoodAtfield @Forbes #commschat

I’m sure you’ll all join me in thanking @EllwoodAtfield for an interesting discussion on recruitment and beyond #commschat

Alright, only a few min left. Tom, anything to add re: recruitment in general? @EllwoodAtfield #commschat

@PollyFergusson it’s interesting you said that. I was having this convo with @KatieSheppet about a need for this basic skill. #commschat

@jgombita Not exclusively, but they do have leadership characteristics + comms experience. As do some in house communicators. #commschat

@jgombita even more worrying many financial prs can’t read a balance sheet! #commschat

So when you asked question @CommsChat you were only talking about an “agency” CEO? If yes, I misunderstood. Thought it inclusive. #commschat

@StraightBatPR @CommsChat Freelance isn’t ideal after a long career gap. It takes time to rebuild contacts #commschat

@PollyFergusson #commschat very much disagree. @ElwoodAtfield Search team are regularly asked to Search for Director General level.

.@jgombita Not necessarily. Esp w/our earlier discussion about the biz dev role falling to account directors #commschat

@jgombita they won’t lack business & financial stuff if done a UK PR degree #commschat

@CommsChat being BME: word hard & work some more. Be adaptable & positive. I didn’t get onto a dedicated prog so it was all work #commschat

Many people who work in “PR” (“marketing” or “communication”) lack business & financial knowledge and skills. How can they lead? #commschat

#commschat comms = CEO? not really. Comms moving up the board hierarchy but still too creative/intangible for many

.@EllwoodAtfield @CommsChat or if BP’s CEO had listened to proper PR advice – doesn’t need to be CEO, just have a strong voice #commschat

The CEO/director general should be the person who understands ALL ASPECTS of the current biz now and has a vision for its future. #commschat

@CommsChat I did the CAM diploma whilst working in a junior role which I really enjoyed and helped me progress. #commschat

.@StraightBatPR it is kind of unfortunate, esp when you consider the leadership skills a CEO needs and often doesn’t have #commschat

@CommsChat #commschat This depends on the priority of the company. Certainly for trade associations there is a substantial precedent.

@EllwoodAtfield I tweeted earlier that there should be a font for sarcasm…. 😉 c @GoooRooo @CommsChat #commschat

@radiantlady @GoooRooo @CommsChat #commschat and BME ambitious undergrad lobbiest’s can apply to #parliamentaryintershipprogramme

@Caanz @CommsChat Agreed. Without a degree, a PR dip of cert can be the bit of paper that backs up skills in the early days #commschat

Final topic: Is a director of comms the most logical choice for CEO / director general? #commschat

“@GoooRooo: @CommsChat BME grads can apply to the Taylor Bennett Foundation for a PR traineeship #commschat”

@GoooRooo @CommsChat #commschat Wowsers! AMAZING PLUG! You should work in PR!!

@BridgetAherne agreed. It’s not like it should be all of ONE or all of T’OTHER. Room enough for all who bring things to tje table #commschat

Time is flying by. 15 min and one topic to go. Even the cat is gearing up its activity level #commschat

@Barasapaul @PhilipOgola my #localgov job covered marcomms, campaign, crisis in huge range of areas. As varied as my clients now #commschat

@ZenYinger @Forbes @CommsChat #commschat As a recruiter of PR’s I sadly see a lot of unhappy Agency people. too much work & no benefits

quals useful as help give reason to ideas and strategy as well as tools for evaluation and measurement – better than gut feeling! #commschat

@Leokattay Well done! 10 bonus points to you. It’s better than Starbucks. #commschat

@EllwoodAtfield @GoooRooo @CommsChat @EAInterim Thanks ill look into that. #commschat

@charlibate @GoooRooo @CommsChat #commschat Contact @EAInterim. They can advise you on the pitfalls and success stories for freelancing

@jgombita I think. #commschat

@CommsChat Break into comms – build relationships, create online presence to demo skills, approach employers #commschat

@CommsChat PR and comms qualifications demonstrate basic understanding, knowledge and commitment to profession. #commschat

@CommsChat and young people interested in PR careers can buy my new book “How to get a job in PR” *shameless plug* #commschat

“You have to remember #PublicRelations is a different job. #Journalists – and anyone else joining profession – need training #CommsChat”

@jgombita It’s a Britishism for Black and Minority Ethnic #commschat

T3) @CommsChat Young people can try internships and voluntary sector roles. BME cultivating network and trusting in your ability #commschat

@BrittanyGolob2 Scooter Bar on Lower Marsh? Looks like it. Good #commschat location no matter.

My hand is up @CommsChat: What does BME stand for? P&TY. #commschat

@CommsChat be bold, bright and willing to work. (and be a good writer, please send me people who can switch tone & style easily!) #commschat

@CarolArthu @CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield @GoooRooo Good points. I think good networking would help the transition to freelance #commschat

What role can qualifications play in helping young people get a start in comms? #commschat

@jgombita Most of those I’ve dealt with over the years (and its a lot of years) are broader than marcomms and essential support. #commschat

@CommsChat #commschat Be proactive, contact dream employers directly don’t wait for the advert. Write letters (no1 does this!) you stand out

@CommsChat T3: freelance sounds ideal on return to work, but not ideal when you’ve had a break & confidence low. People important #commschat

In The PR Agency Vs. In-House PR Debate, Nobody Wins forbes.com/sites/jennifer… @Forbes #commschat @CommsChat —

@CommsChat #commschat Internship programmes such as those at @mhp, @FishburnHedges , @Edelman or the EA supported #parliamentaryinternship

@CommsChat #commschat Agency is one route. Tailor CV to the clients of the agency. Read @communicate 2 find which Agen have which clients.

@Caanz some PR agencies *focus* on reputation/issues mngmnt. Or have an arm devoted to it, eg @JohnPaluszek1 @ketchum. Universal. #commschat

@charlibate @CommsChat #Commschat Many risks can be over exaggerated. There are many VERY successful professional interims.

Let’s start in on t4: What can young people, or those from BME backgrounds do to break into comms? #commschat

If only I was brave enough! “@GoooRooo: @CommsChat Go freelance. Much more flexiblity and possibilities for part-time work #commschat“

@PhilipOgola @Barasapaul depends on sector..#commschat @StraightBatPR but that cant be compared to a multi sector Account Manager in agency

@charlibate @CommsChat experienced, strategic freelancers are in demand. Think you’ll be fine if you can take the risk #commschat

In The PR Agency Vs. In-House PR Debate, Nobody Wins forbes.com/sites/jennifer… @Forbes #commschat @CommsChat

@jgombita The ones I have experience of do. Is it a geographical/cultural thing? More emphasis in US and Canada on marcomms?#commschat

“@GoooRooo: @CommsChat Go freelance. Much more flexiblity and possibilities for part-time work #commschat” +1

@CommsChat T3: a tough one. Best advice is remember how good you are, have confidence & belief in yourself. Don’t apologise! #commschat

@Barasapaul interesting. In my recent post on @prconversations, I shared project management term: T-shaped skills! Same thing? #commschat

Looks like #commschat has picked up again guys!

I know the feeling. First time in yonks! “@Leokattay: Following the #commschat discussion tonight. Remembered for once! Interesting stuff.”

Looks like good #commschat so far. About to eat dinner, so can’t stop, bt my answer to A3 is network & talk to fab people like @jesschivers

“@jane63c: in house allows you to influence strategy and thus protect reputation before the fire breaks out #commschat”

@CommsChat The only options I see are staying put or braving freelance work which has its risks. #commschat

–+ a lot of admin in an inhouse role, much more so than agency side. True? #commschat @jonathandolby You spend time defending budgets.

@Caanz don’t think independent consultants (like @CommAMMO and you) operate the same way as the middle-to-large marcomm agencies. #commschat

Following the great insightful #CommsChat from Nairobi cc @CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield @phillipfollows

@CommsChat #commschat 3 options: 1 @EAInterim 2 start you’re own company / agency 3. utilise your existing PR network.

Following the #commschat discussion tonight. Remembered for once! Interesting stuff.

@PhilipOgola @Barasapaul it depends on sector. In-house #localgov felt all-rounder to me. Varied topics, skills, demands.#commschat

@Caanz for example, check out this tweet from colleague/pal @TerryFlynn earlier today: twitter.com/TerryFlynn/sta… #commschat

@CommsChat Go freelance. Much more flexiblity and possibilities for part-time work #commschat

@jgombita My experience is different. Consultancy advice to CEO and board invaluable support for in-house.#commschat

“@CommsChat: Thanks for first-hand experiences guys, keep the tweets coming #commschat” Pr champs Kenya @Barasapaul @Alfienganga @gina_din

. @CommsChat I’m just about to return from maternity leave and feel like I couldn’t move jobs as very limited part-time opps #commschat

in house can offer part time options but ultimately the culture of the profession needs to change to help #commschat

And/or How do agencies cope with the mummy gap and keep experience and numbers steady? #commschat

@PhilipOgola you’re welcome. @PRSA is good about asking this Canadian to contribute to blog. Did one for #PREthics month, too! #commschat

@jonathandolby only admin related to mgnt of staff and systems, if that’s what you mean. I call it accountability! #commschat

Let’s focus on the part-time then. What can you do in comms if you want to work part time? #commschat

ex journos forget that sometimes a story is not for telling! #commschat

in house allows you to influence strategy and thus protect reputation before the fire breaks out #commschat

“@Barasapaul: I have been through both agency and Inhouse.Agency creates an all alrounder while inhouse produces a specialist #commschat”

Have a friend in AD role…he feels there is a lot of admin in an inhouse role, much more so than agency side. True or not? #commschat

@Caanz really depends on what kind of work you focus on. Find most of the (big) “PR” agencies really more marcomm and transient. #commschat

.@EllwoodAtfield @phillipfollows hence, journalists! #commschat

@dellerm worked with someone who’d come from in-house. She couldn’t cope with having 9 clients after being focused on 1 #commschat

late to the party interesting debate going on #commschat

Enjoying the debate on #commschat this evening!

@phillipfollows #commschat in my experience it’s cos the “business” is so key to success. Agencies need people who can write a good pitch

Thanks for first-hand experiences guys, keep the tweets coming #commschat

Indeed.@jonathandolby. Plus being “the guy/gal in the room” without having to fight for the attention (like in an agency setting) #commschat

@jgombita thanks for the share cc @PRSA #commschat

T3: What can women do to return to work after maternity leave or a gap in employment? #commschat

+1RT @jonathandolby: I imagine the appeals are focusing on 1 thing exclusively, being domain expert & being part of organisation. #commschat

@jgombita Not entirely true – consultancies/agencies are long term partners and work on strategy & implementation with client #commschat

@CommsChat what about the other way? Why don’t agencies take in-house people when recruiting. It’s quite rare #commschat

@phillipfollows In my exp pl go in-house to agency at v junior or v senior levels. In the mid-range not so much #commschat

.@EllwoodAtfield @phillipfollows Why do you think that is? #commschat

@phillipfollows #commschat Yes. to a degree. but at senior level (MD) and only with prior agency experience… generally. It’s rare though

“@Caanz: @jgombita Can you clarify what you mean by ‘commoditizes’ please? #commschat” +1

@CommsChat: T1: Do journalists make better PRs than PRs? #commschat But can teach lifelong PRs about news. So a mix is good

@Caanz were your ears burning earlier? Was telling @greenbanana we can expect to read/post your PRoust Questionnaire quite soon! #commschat

@CommsChat: T1: Do journalists make better PRs than PRs? #commschat > no. Often journos find it hard to stop seeing things from that POV.

@phillipfollows agree – there does need to be more. You have to really care about the business @CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield #commschat

@CommsChat I imagine the appeals are focusing on one thing exclusively, being domain expert and being part of the organisation. #commschat

@EllwoodAtfield #commschat Do you see many PRs go the other way? Into agencies?

.@EllwoodAtfield splitting biz dev function takes care of 2. What to do about 1? #commschat

@Caanz agencies “sell” comms as a commodity, including in bits & pieces. Agency hopes co’s will buy as many pieces as possible. #commschat

@PhilipOgola Well, writing is key in PR but Media Relations is not everything #CommsChat @Morris_Aron @CynthiaNyamai @gina_din @Desgomes

FYI @PhilipOgola that concept came from a Brit in a LI Group; I used it in my #PRin2013 post for @PRSA: ow.ly/qu3ZB #commschat

@jgombita Can you clarify what you mean by ‘commoditizes’ please? #commschat

“@phillipfollows: @CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield #commschat PR more about individual stories it’s about the long-term strategy” cc @Barasapaul

@MarkB8man Agreed! #commschat

@CommsChat It varies. Some journos are great PRs, excellent at IDing news, others not so keen on the corporate line #commschat

@CommsChat @Maxim_PR @EllwoodAtfield #commschat Have something collectively to work to more than £? even if that’s just being best-in class

@EllwoodAtfield @CommsChat have an ex colleague who feels the same. Makes me glad I work for a small agency! #commschat

“The difference btwn agency/consultancy and in-house PR are immense. First “commoditizes” communication services. #commschat” @jgombita

@CommsChat To be fair, not all journalists will make good PR pros and not all PR pros would make good journalists. #commschat

One of the big pros in the agency column is variety. Get to work with a lot of clients #commschat

@CommsChat from my point of view in a small agency it’s easy – such a variety of tasks & industry is constantly evolving #commschat

@ZenYinger that sounds like a media relations / marketing PR version of public relations, n’est-ce pas? #commschat

Or maybe the question is, why do people choose to move in house? #commschat

What can agencies do to keep people engaged? @Maxim_PR #commschat

I think the difference between agency/consultancy and in-house PR are immense. First “commoditizes” communication services. #commschat

@EllwoodAtfield that depends on size of agency. Personally still very much involved with clients and all aspects of the business #commschat

Do journalists make better PRs than PRs? Via @CommsChat join #CommsChat cc @Barasapaul @Morris_Aron @CynthiaNyamai @gina_din @Desgomes

@CommsChat yes. Love my job because it’s so varied – worked on 20 clients last month, wouldn’t want to go in house #commschat

.@EllwoodAtfield Is this common practice yet? How would it help? #commschat

@CommsChat @EllwoodAtfield #commschat PR more about individual stories it’s about the long-term strategy

@CommsChat some enter PR after a formal uni degree program; others learn/progress in-house. @greenbanana doing her PhD on topic. #Commschat

T2: Can agencies ever stop the account director brain drain to in house comms teams? #commschat

@EllwoodAtfield but public relations is much, much, much more than simply “media relations.” #commschat

Tonight’s #commschat locale comes with cats pic.twitter.com/d2w41kA9fA

@jgombita But then, what makes an existing comms person better at that then others? Is it just down to experience? #commschat

@CommsChat not necessarily – most skills can be taught. Doesn’t mean they’ll be better/worse because they’ve been a journo #commschat

You have to remember public relations is a different job. Journalists – and anyone else joining profession – need training #CommsChat

@CommsChat issues/reputation, IR, community relations, gov’t relations–all the various “relationships” inherent in in-house PR. #commschat

“Hire former journos for in-house corporate media/brand journalism/content mkt roles. But for “public relations?” #commschat @jgombita

Should journos only suit certain roles within comms and not others? #commschat

Certainly hire former journos for in-house corporate media/brand journalism/content marketing roles. But for “public relations?” #commschat

@jgombita Good point. Journos would have experience writing + finding a story, but maybe not on the reputation or even IR front #commschat

If that is the case @CommsChat I fail to see how/why the typical ex-journo would be superior at reputation/issues management, etc #commschat

#commschat I’ve assumed a PR is a Media Relations Manager the kind of post I’m asked to recruit for.

Hi, it’s Bridget from @nottsfire comms – I’ve worked with both ex-journos & PR / marketing pros. Both good in own ways. #commschat

@CommsChat depends on the individual. Some never get out of the journo mindset & see PR as an easy way to earn more & work less #commschat

@jgombita Hmm I suppose we could broaden that out by saying “a non-journalism comms role” #commschat

You should define what you mean by “PR” in that question @CommsChat.Reputation? Communication? Relationship building? Marketing? #commschat

It seems to me that everyone is always asking when I’ll go over to the dark sid–ahem PR #commschat

#commschat: looks at all aspects relating to communications, When: Mondays, 8:00pm UK. #tweetchatshappeningnow

What do others think? Have you employed journos who turned out to be dynamo PRs? or cr*p PRs? #commschat

Lone wolves we journos can be…#commschat

#commschat as a recruiter we see employers are wary of taking on raw journos. They can be perceived as lone wolves and not team workers

Our first topic is sure to raise some debate: Do journalists make better PRs than PRs? #commschat

Eek sorry TOM not Tim. #commschat

Hello all (it’s Tom from @EllwoodAtfield) #commschat

We’ll be discussing comms recruitment and more, so get your thinking hats on #commschat

Hello all, Brittany here joined by Tim from @EllwoodAtfield. #commschat