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February 6, 2013 Transcript of #CommsChat on diversity in PR
Last week, we were joined by representatives from the CIPR and PRCA, both of whom have initiatives aiming to alleviate the obstacles facing PR industry jobseekers. The CIPR’s Diversity Working Group was represented by Alex Louis (@commsnetwork) and Matt Cartmell (@mattcartmell), comms director at the PRCA which recently launched its Diversity Network.
The debate ranged from the problems with internships and unpaid jobs to qualifications in PR to the steps already taken to alleviate these obstacles.
Some highlighted tweets below:
@commsnetwork PR has to be seen as a viable ‘professional’ career if some BME groups are to take it more seriously as an option
@MattCartmell weve been fighting for interns to getthe minimum wage and have signed up 80agencies to do this
@StephenBeynon Someone should do a TripAdvisor-type site for internships.
@PhilM_CIPR Personal view but if you do a days’ work you deserve a days’ pay.
@BridgetAherne cultural perceptions – in a BME house it was all about getting into a ‘noble’ career: dr, nurse, solicitor, teacher.
@cornucopuia If we don’t make intenship a meaningful experience with true value, potential talent wil be lured elsewhere
And the full transcript:
-
RT
@commsnetwork: Diversity better in the charity/public sector – how do we even it out across all of PR?#commschat#Commschat -
Agreed
@PhilM_CIPR (Hi Phil) – would love to see greater visibility of IC in universities/schools as career option#commschat -
The visibility of the profession is a major issue for new entrants – something we should work on through schools and universities
#CommsChat -
RT
@MattCartmell:@Helenw7 writing skills are so important but often ignored#commschat -
@commsnetwork I don’t think they ‘need’ a degree but gravitas is important-anything that reinforces this can only be a good thing#commschat -
@CIPRinside is looking at IC career paths:http://ciprinside.co.uk/2013/01/mapping-our-careers-is-no-easy-task/ …#commschat -
@AnnemarieBatson Massively under-rated. I used to work for a networking guru; he taught me a whole lot.#commschat -
Diversity better in the charity/public sector – how do we even it out across all of PR?
#CommsChat -
@PhilM_CIPR@commsnetwork Building relationships also core skill in PR#Commschat -
@Helenw7 writing skills are so important but often ignored#commschat -
Think we need to promote more positive role models in PR. It’s a skilled job – we’re not all spin doctors
#commschat -
@ncardwell Definitely benchmarking of in-sector PR standards. Compare and contrast!#commschat -
@Helenw7 I used to choose one a week for an internal ‘award’ – never at a loss for a winner!#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork@CIPR_NorthEast#commschat not to hand i am afraid -
Do they need a degree? Does a PRO need ‘gravitas’?Do they need experience? WE move the goal posts and game on.
#CommsChat -
Get more role models into schools, spread a better understanding of PR and career paths, help employers to reduce/remove barriers
#CommsChat -
I always log on when
#commschat is almost over. Must do better next time. The topics always fit where I am at -
@CommsChat Making diversity, outreach, community engagement part of the industry, including in sector-award schemes etc#commschat -
@commsnetwork yep I can send our 2011 pr census made with prweek#commschat -
@commsnetwork Very true!…Customer service is the new PR & savvy consumers nowadays know the look & feel of a good PR.#CommsChat -
@MattCartmell Good news! Happy to hear that these schemes still work well – Congrats to everyone!#CommsChat -
RT
@commsnetwork: How people first come across PR is important. Need to make ‘first encounter’ demonstrate its depth and breadth.#CommsChat -
@Maxim_PR@dellerm Great to hear! I’ve seen some pretty badly written press releases over the years – also seen good ones 🙂#commschat -
we want to devise real practical solutions rather than pay lip service. thats why Tanya Joseph and Robert Phillips are in Network
#commschat -
Couldn’t find a job in radio after degree, took some freelance work on a PR campaign, rest history! Had to look PR up in library
#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork came across it purely by accident after doing a teaching degree. Still here 13 yrs later though and doing ok#commschat -
A4) I created a meme last year on what IC pros do:http://www.rachmiller.com/what-people-think-i-do-meme-internal-communications/ …
#commschat -
RT
@commsnetwork: How people come across PR is important. We need to make that first encounter demonstrate depth and breadth.#commschat -
MT
@helenw7 Good to see writing being listed as important skill -often missed in favour of SM, strategy-basics important#commschat >agree -
@Helenw7@dellerm really?! We wouldn’t employ anyone who couldn’t write – it’s a core skill. Needed for all aspects of the job#commschat -
How people first come across PR is important. We need to make that ‘first encounter’ demonstrate its depth and breadth.
#CommsChat -
Topic 5 What is yet to be done to ensure the steps forward are carried through?
#commschat -
so, lots of talk tonight, but as we move into the final ten minutes lets tackle topic 5
#commschat -
MT
@jarrodwilliams: I knew about media industry from high school. No one ever introduced PR#CommsChat > same. Learned later, post Uni. -
T4: I think we need to get better at showing people how PR is a career where they can use skills/talents they already have
#commschat -
@dellerm@Maxim_PR Good to see writing being listed as important skill – often missed in favour of SM, strategy-basics important#commschat -
@CIPR_NorthEast any figures on diversity, it’d be interesting to see them#CommsChat -
@CIPR_NorthEast@wadds@commschat@commsnetwork@prca_uk I knew about media industry from high school. No one ever introduced PR#CommsChat -
@Miss_Greyson@CommsChat I have found that organisations expect the experience to be there.#chickenandegg#commschat -
RT
@AllthingsIC: If anyone is looking for an IC mentor, do let me or@theICcrowd know because Im sure we can match you up#commschat -
@Miss_Greyson@CommsChat True! Wondering why they call it internship? On the job trainings are far more effective & relevent!#commschat -
@Miss_Greyson there’s much in that – nepotism an issue in lots of places, but we can use that if we reach out to different groups#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork diversity is about mixing up the pot and means you can be from any background#CommsChat -
RT
@AllthingsIC: If anyone is looking for an IC mentor, do let me or@theICcrowd know because Im sure we can match you up#commschat -
@wadds@CommsChat@commsnetwork@PRCA_UK plenty of interest in PR career from students we see – more to be done in schools tho#commschat -
weve placed around 50 apprentices sine the prca scheme started and had excellent feedback
#commschat -
RT
@cornucopuia: mentor/sponsor/rolemodel important especially in early years to help you with those important career decisions#commschat -
If anyone is looking for an IC mentor, do let me or
@theICcrowdknow because I’m sure we can match you up#commschat -
@Maxim_PR good writing is important. And a willingness to learn. Can teach the rest.#Commschat -
having a mentor/sponsor/rolemodel important especially in the early years to help you with those important career decisions
#commschat -
@MattCartmell yes and use skills of the industry to show how open it can be#commschat -
Thanks, Annemarie 🙂 RT
@AnnemarieBatson:@commsnetwork@rooftopsonfire I dont see why not. IC exp seen as massive value#commschat -
@CommsChat more training on the job should be available. Too many internships advertised require you to already know everything#commschat -
@jarrodwilliams IoIC do mentor scheme when IC pros undertake diploma. I was matched in 09 + still do even though student finished#commschat -
@commsnetwork@rooftopsonfire I don’t see why not. IC exp seen as massive value#Commschat -
@jarrodwilliams I had a fantastic mentor Jane Hammond FIPR – brilliant, only interested in how keen I was, lots of responsibility#CommsChat -
@MattCartmell I think greater connection between industry & education, & ambassadors with varying exp levels/ careers integral#CommsChat -
MT
@ms_organised:Like to see @CIPR_UKgeographical/sectoral groups help fund internships#commschat >meet PROs networking events for students -
@CommsChat its all about offering an entirely new route off access and apprenticeships are v succesful with employers#commschat -
RT
@jarrodwilliams: Im actively looking for a mentor to help me move forward, but its quite difficult.@Ali92 has been great#Commschat -
@Adizah_Tejani Interesting you say ‘backgrounds’, ‘class’ can be more powerful/influential in hiring decisions than race#CommsChat -
has the Taylor Bennet Foundation helped – we wrote about it over 2 yrs ago http://communicatemagazine.co.uk/news/2047-new-foundation-launches-to-foster-diversity-in-pr-and-comms …
#commschat -
@AllthingsIC I’m actively looking for a mentor to help me move forward, but it’s quite difficult.@Ali92 has been great#CommsChat -
@AllthingsIC@youngenterprise I would definitely getting involved in that side of things. I’d to be a mentor in the future#Commschat -
@MattCartmell#commschat would love to see great agencies like@ArcSevenComms and@DOW_UK collaborate on work placements to boost diversity -
@commsnetwork@wadds Do you think students share good experience more often or the bad ones?#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork Absolutely! Can add it to the list next to ‘How do you get people to comply with your IC process?’ 🙂#commschat -
When recruiting, or even taking on students, we don’t look for PR qualifications. We want writers, multi-taskers, enthusiasm
#commschat -
A good time to move onto topic 4 – Topic 4 .How do qualifications or apprenticeships ease the obstacles facing PR hopefuls?
#Commschat -
@rooftopsonfire ‘recognising value of IC/PR’ – whole new topic 🙂#CommsChat -
@Adizah_Tejani so we could develop a list of positive pr role models for use in local media, school appearances etc#commschat -
@MattCartmell to share their stories too#commschat -
@commsnetwork Really trying for it. It’s more about the recognition of its value. At the moment, its just seen to ‘happen’!#commschat -
A3) I loved
@YoungEnterprise when at school, am sure there are opportunities for comms pros to get involved as mentors#commschat -
@cornucopuia Isn’t it the two go hand in hand? Choosing a profession within a good place maximise success & productivity; value!#CommsChat -
@wadds wasn’t aimed at them, but perhaps your students could talk to others?#CommsChat -
@wadds i guess once youve started a degree then the heart and mind was already won. its before then that;s hard#commschat -
Just passed halfway, so quick nod to our sponsorshttp://www.communicatemagazine.co.uk/onmyipad arguably the best comms ipad experience
#Commschat -
“
@commsnetwork: what we really need to do for interns is create a meaningful experience for internships that adds real value#CommsChat“ -
@rooftopsonfire Most people employing IC specialists want experience over quals – can you push for more IC?#CommsChat -
@MattCartmell actually getting people from a range of backgrounds who have broken into the industry in the last 2-3 years#commschat -
@MattCartmell many schools would be v. keen to showcase viable employment opportunities for pupils, but they need us to offer!#CommsChat -
@AllthingsIC Thanks, Rachel 🙂 I’m back! Hope you’re well.#commschat -
@CommsChat My roll is not 100% IC so pushing for development in that area to make it high priority is hard.#commschat -
@rooftopsonfire Hi Tom, glad you see you came back for a second week 🙂#commschat -
@commsnetwork@CommsChat Best PR is authentic, transparent and honest.#CommsChat -
@rooftopsonfire more please…#CommsChat -
@CommsChat Providing enough qualification that taking ‘a course’ in IC/PR will develop my skills in the right direction…#commschat -
@commsnetwork the connection between@bcumedia &@CIPR_Midlands, as well as schemes such as@B_HIVE really helped me#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork research can’t have polled students on PR degree courses in the region#commschat@CIPR_NorthEast -
@rooftopsonfire tell us about your barriers…#commschat -
@ClaireatWaves fantastic yes pls!#commschat -
@CommsChat Think about core skills of PR, not about the qualifications or lack thereof – be prepared to people train on the job#CommsChat -
@CommsChat An interesting one. Is training in PR for existing non-PR’ers seen as valuable? I’ve hit barriers this week…#commschat -
RT
@ms_organised:#commschat Id like to see if the@CIPR_UKgeographical and sectoral groups to help fund internships.#commschat -
@cornucopuia People stay with organisations because of people & meaningful value they get from their work, then money comes in.#commschat -
A3) Can you define access problems pls
#commschat -
@mattcartmell Loads – hold me to a blog with some ideas 🙂#commschat -
MT
@MattCartmell:@ncardwell agreed – process of explaining what PR needs to begin in schools, best place to meet diverse groups#commschat -
CIPR publish their research on 22 Feb, check http://bit.ly/WMu6D3 for details
#CommsChat -
#commschat I do find some of the language very divisive. Not a criticism but can see how some may feel pr less inclusive -
#commschat I’d like to see if the@CIPR_UK geographical and sectoral groups to help fund internships. -
RT
@cornucopuia: If we dont make intenship a meaningful experience with true value, potential talent wil be lured elsewhere#commschat -
Hi
@jarrodwilliams and@digiconvs. Jarrod – welcome to your first one#commschat -
Key point – IMO RT
@commsnetwork:That’s evident in our research -PR as a profession -we have some way to go with some communities#CommsChat -
@ncardwell agreed – the process of explaining what PR needs to begin in schools, the best place to meet diverse groups#commschat -
Some comms pros take initiative + create own success e.g
@egillieshttp://www.rachmiller.com/between-a-job-and-a-hard-place/ …#commschat -
OK Topic 3. How do employers tackle the access problems in the PR industry when hiring and providing opportunities for training?
#commschat -
@jarrodwilliams@MattCartmell@asadd Education is very important!…Future of brands depends on right & relevant eduction.#commschat -
@AllthingsIC first time getting involved, seen some great discussions previous weeks@commschat#commschat -
@MattCartmell absolutely. However quotas aren’t the answer. It’s about the right talent hiring the right talent.#commschat -
@jarrodwilliams yes, especially FE – lots of real talent there#CommsChat -
@BridgetAherne That’s evident in our research – PR as a profession – we have some way to go with some communities#CommsChat -
MT
@jarrodwilliams: I think agencies/ Comms teams need greater connection to local education. Some great examples in the mids!#commschat -
If we don’t make intenship a meaningful experience with true value, potential talent wil be lured elsewhere
#commschat -
RT
@commsnetwork: what we really need to do for interns is create a meaningful experience for internships that adds real value.#CommsChat -
@MattCartmell@asadd I think agencies/ Comms teams need greater connection to local education. Some great examples in the mids!#commschat -
We also face competition from the tradional professions
#commschat -
@PhilM_CIPR agreed but the financial support – orlack of – is issue no 1.#commschat -
@MattCartmell I think clients need to play their part in that too. Agencies need to pitch with diverse teams#CommsChat -
@CommsChat cultural perceptions – in a BME house it was all about getting into a ‘noble’ career: dr, nurse, solicitor, teacher.#commschat -
@MattCartmell There are some really good business/leadership in schools/colleges progs. Perhaps scope for PR element/tie-ins?#commschat -
@commsnetwork yup, all the motivators an employee would expect from an employer. Creates a learning culture… ideal for interns#commschat -
Evening all, catching up now. Note to followers – am in
@commschatfor next 35 mins. Join in here: http://www.commschat.com using:#commschat -
RT
@commsnetwork: what we really need to do for interns is create a meaningful experience for internships that adds real value#CommsChat -
@wadds oops seem to have started something here! bear in mind we were talking to students not considering PR as a career#CommsChat -
@asadd so should we go down the route of holding agencies to account for their lack ofdiversity?#commschat -
recently met a 5 mnt unpaid intern for big int agency. agency wldnt touch oil, arms, tobacco etc but happy to take slave labour
#commschat -
@StephenBeynon@CommsChat Not specific to PR but there ishttp://www.ratemyplacement.co.uk/#Commschat -
what we really need to do for interns is create a meaningful experience for internships that adds real value
#CommsChat -
@CommsChat@commsnetwork sorry@CIPR_NorthEast will have data on North East or@PRCA_UK#commschat -
@MattCartmell truly understand equality, impact of oppression, diversity etc. Simple words, very very complex meanings#commschat -
@MattCartmell a forum to discuss the issues and proof of diversity having an ROI would be a good start#commschat -
Also we want many peopleinvolved in the network. email me on Matt.Cartmell@prca.org.uk to get the details
#commschat -
@CommsChat@commsnetwork#commschat sorry can’t hang about. Need to nail a speech for tomorrow. -
@commsnetwork we had a student in last week doing a PR degree. Interesting to compare her theory to life in an agency#commschat -
@jarrodwilliams reality is though that internships in PR vary so wildly that for some it’s hours of tedious work, little learning#CommsChat -
@CommsChat@commsnetwork#commschat question sample. PR students at Newcastle and Sunderland surely want to work in PR? Check with @cipr_ne -
the first Prca Diversity Network is meeting on 26 feb. does anyone have ideas for proactive ideas to open up the industry?
#commschat -
Perhaps on Linkedin. RT
@StephenBeynon:@CommsChat Someone should do a TripAdvisor-type site for internships.#commschat -
@Communicatemag It is a concept I have had to get used to quickly or else I do not get any work experience!#PR#commschat#intern -
@MattCartmell will have to look her up – thanks#commschat -
@Communicatemag unpaid internships are a big issue. Poverty a big issue in uk and no income creates additional barriers.#commschat -
Absolutely. RT
@PhilM_CIPR:#CommsChat Personal view but if you do a days work you deserve a days pay.#commschat -
@Andrew_Ellery agree with that – but PR-ing the industry is always a challenge, especially with terms like ‘spin doctor’ etc#commschat -
@Andrew_Ellery PR does need PR and we’re not great at doing it on ourselves#CommsChat -
#CommsChat Personal view but if you do a days’ work you deserve a days’ pay. -
@Maxim_PR Quite! Perhaps that’s our challenge. Doing more to find and promote talent already in the industry. Q is how I suppose.#commschat -
I was quite happy to be an unpaid intern, just so I could get the experience. Rather that than sit at home twiddling thumbs
#commschat -
@CommsChat Someone should do a TripAdvisor-type site for internships.#commschat -
RT
@cornucopuia: The CIPR has also launched its own CIPR Internship and work placement toolkit#commschat -
The concept of unpaid internships must seem farcical to socio-economic groups who feel society already takes advantage
#commschat -
@ncardwell just can’t think of any decent role models at this precise moment!#commschat -
@commsnetwork it is but I get lots of enquiries so would be surprised if it was northwest#commschat -
@Maxim_PR Training is a real issue – think profession – think degree – and there aren’t many about in PR#CommsChat -
@commsnetwork@CommsChat that’s a good point – the job can vary hugely depending on sector, agency/in-house/location etc#commschat -
The CIPR has also launched its own CIPR Internship and work placement toolkit
#commschat -
RT
@commsnetwork: theres something about the diversity of PR itself – finance, health, sports etc. understanding diversity of PR#commschat -
#CommsChat@CommsChat CIPR produced guidance for interns and for employers in 2012 – helping interns to ask the right the Questions etc -
@Maxim_PR someone like rachel bell from Shine is a great role model. v talented and from an unpriveledged background#commschat -
@Maxim_PR@CommsChat that’s true. You guys all have the skilks to promote and sell your sector. Perhaps PR needs some PR?#commschat 😉 -
I must admit, I didn’t know what PR was when I started university, I wanted to be a radio star…https://jarrodcwilliams.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/stand-back-were-the-next-generation-of-pr-people/ …
#commschat -
@commschat yes exactly – perception is that PR example is Max.#commschat -
@CommsChat there’s something about the diversity of PR itself – finance, health, sports etc. understanding diversity of PR#CommsChat -
@Maxim_PR@CommsChat Hi all, i’m Neil, in-house PR. Agree that promoting wider PR role models from across sectors would help#commschat -
Topic 2 – – What has been done by professional bodies to address the issue of interns and training?
#commschat -
Lets move to topic two, and back to the point we touched on earlier
#commschat -
“
@CommsChat: so, lack of role models, unpaid interns, ignorance of profession, employer conservatism – any other obstacles?#commschat“ -
@commsnetwork wondering if@wadds is watching – sure he’d have something to say that no-one frmo NE interested in career in PR#commschat -
@CommsChat on that note, who is a good role model? Think most people think Max Clifford if you mention PR – not ideal.#commschat -
weve been fighting for interns to getthe minimum wage and have signed up 80agencies to do this
#commschat -
@amandacomms actually that should have been northeast, but still worrying –#CommsChat -
RT
@Maxim_PR: think a large percentage of the population in general wouldnt know what a career in PR involves. Its not Ab Fab#commschat -
so, lack of role models, unpaid interns, ignorance of profession, employer conservatism – any other obstacles?
#commschat -
@rooftopsonfire@CommsChat Sorry EE’s abreviation for employees!#commschat -
@MattCartmell DWG met with some recruiters in 2011 – also an issue for them, but they say clients wishes come first#CommsChat -
RT
@commsnetwork: its not just about BME, also revealing not one person from the northwest considering PR as an option#commschat -
@commsnetwork you mean from the NW of England? that surprises me#commschat#commschat -
.
@commsnetwork think a large percentage of the population in general wouldn’t know what a career in PR involves. It’s not Ab Fab#commschat -
@communicatemag yes unpaid internships are a major problem hence prca campaign#commschat -
RT
@commsnetwork: 70% say were unfamiliar with what a career in PR involves – 56% of the BME sample unfamiliar with the professn#commschat -
But for me, it’s not just about BME, also revealing that not one person from the northwest considering PR as an option
#CommsChat -
@commschat due to very exposed nature of role, you cant offer EEs “a chance” to prove themselves or settling in period#commschat -
presumably it goes beyond usual barriers. Cultural expectations etc. And, as with class, unpaid internships dont help
#commschat -
70% say they were unfamiliar with what a career in PR involves – 56% of the BME sample say unfamiliar with the profession
#CommsChat -
but even things like geography and recruitment approaches have major impact
#commschat -
@commschat employers want EEs with PR experience for their teams due to nature of industry!#commschat -
@Andrew_Ellery it’s almost always interesting – not sure I’ll have much to contribute this week though.#commschat -
I think that, for someone already working in comms/PR, it’s seen as an addition to your skillset not ‘your skillset’
#commschat -
its opportunities, attitudes, among lots of other reasons
#commschat -
@Maxim_PR looking forward to reading contributions. I enjoy following#commschat 🙂 -
Isn’t it the usual barriers, few role models, no access, not given career advice
#commschat#commschat -
@commsnetwork but please tell us about the research you’ve just done#commschat -
@commschat Don’t know if I will have much to contribute but will be observing discussion closely 🙂#commschat -
@commsnetwork excellent – my attempt to stir things up on the subject o f diversitydisastrously backfires –#commschat -
@CommsChat PR has to be seen as a viable ‘professional’ career if some BME groups are to take it more seriously as an option#CommsChat -
@CommsChat Padraic here, Internal Comms Consultant with Vodafone Ireland.#commschat -
Going to be watching
#commschat for the next hour on diversity in PR. Do mute if not interested. I’m Rachel, account director at Maxim. -
RT
@commsnetwork: Ive been looking at research commissioned by CIPR DWG into why more BME students arent considering PR,#commschat -
Evening everyone from
@gmpolice subject of interest to us#commschat#commschat -
Actually – I’m a ‘girl’!
#CommsChat -
Alex, Matt, let’s kick off with our first topic – What are the obstacles prohibiting access to the PR industry?
#commschat -
I’ve been looking at research commissioned by CIPR DWG into why more BME students aren’t considering PR, lots to talk about
#CommsChat -
hi matt cartmell here
@prca_uk comms director#commschat#commschat -
welcome guys – and they are both guys, as am I – Im andrew thomas publisher of Communicate magazine. a short intro is always good
#commschat -
Good evening, everyone! Looking forward to reading your thoughts.
#commschat -
and Alex Louis, the vice-chair of the CIPR’s Diversity Working Group –
@commsnetwork#commschat -
Hi, I’m Alex Louis, PR consultant, Verve Communications Associate currently working with two other BME consultants in the NHS
#CommsChat -
we’ll be joined by Matt Cartmell, communications director of the PRCA –
@mattcartmell#commschat -
so its 8pm, time for commschat. a big welcome to otnights guests
#commschat
Jane Revell 
Rachel Miller 
Phil Morgan 
Tom Jepson 
Helen Deverell 
comms-network 
Anne-Marie Batson 
MattCartmell 
Maxim 
Chris Taylor 
Rayna Miller 
Neil Cardwell 
Ehsan 
Valeria Tudor 
Jarrod Williams 
Johnson_Public 
Adizah Tejani 
CIPR North East 
Martin Deller 
Cornelius Alexander: 
Lauren Greyson 
Andrew / Communicate 
Leigh Daynes 
Stephen Waddington 
Claire Thompson 
Andrew Ellery 
Sarah Pinch 
Asad Dhunna 
Bridget Aherne 
Matt Silver 
Stephen Beynon 
Lucy Neuburger 
Amanda Coleman 
Padraic See what others are talking about "Brittany Golob"
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